How can there be a God of Love in such a wicked world?

[The Lonely, Boney One]

In an increasingly secular and wicked World, many people ask, "how can there be a God ruling the world when we see so much wickedness and suffering, so many innocent little Children starving and dying".

Some religious leaders will tell you that "God took a certain child because he has a purpose for said child in heaven", is such a notion true or just an indication of the blind leading the blind?

What do you all think?

Heres a clue :-

" 'Our Father in heaven, may your name be kept holy. 6:10Let your kingdom come. Let your will be done, as in heaven, so on earth. "

[The Lonely, Boney One]

Maybe and hopefully you all know the answer allready, but I do meet many people who dont and therefore dont belive there can be a God, so I will continue for them.

Does God rule the world?,

The Lords Prayer Jesus taught us to pray,
Our Father which art in heaven,
Hallowed by they name, or let thy name be sanctified.

What this means is let Gods name be found to be Holy, or free of sin and blame, the blame people put on God when an earthquake or tidel wave kills many people. "Why did God do this"?, did he?

Let thy Kingdom come.

Whats "thy Kingdom"?
 A Kingdom is another word for Government or rulership.
If God is allready running the world, why did Jesus ask us to pray for Gods kingdom to come?, if hes allready ruling as king?

The reason is, God is not ruling the world at the moment, the only time he exercised any rulership over mankind since our expultion from Eden, was over the Israelites.

Not only was Gods rulership over the Hebrews a Tutor leading to the Chist, and a way of demonstrating that Man cannot earn his own salvation even if he could follow the law of God to the letter, but a demonstration of how much better off mankind is, when they have God as king over them.

Here are a couple of scriptures that show what life will be like when God is ruling the world through his son Christ Jesus

 2:4He will judge between the nations,
      And will decide concerning many peoples;
      And they shall beat their swords into plowshares,
      And their spears into pruning-hooks.

 Nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
      Neither shall they learn war any more.

When God s Kingdom comes, there wont be any more wars.

 65:17For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; and the former things shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. 65:18But be you glad and rejoice forever in that which I create; for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. 65:19I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people; and there shall be heard in her no more the voice of weeping and the voice of crying. 65:20There shall be no more there an infant of days, nor an old man who has not filled his days; for the child shall die one hundred years old, and the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed. 65:21They shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. 65:22They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree shall be the days of my people, and my chosen shall long enjoy the work of their hands. 65:23They shall not labor in vain, nor bring forth for calamity; for they are the seed of the blessed of Yahweh, and their offspring with them. 65:24It shall happen that, before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear. 65:25The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the ox; and dust shall be the serpent's food. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, says Yahweh.


No more infant deaths, no more slavery or working to gain profit for another.

  21:1I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth have passed away, and the sea is no more. 21:2I saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready like a bride adorned for her husband. 21:3I heard a loud voice out of heaven saying, "Behold, God's dwelling is with people, and he will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. 21:4He will wipe away from them every tear from their eyes. Death will be no more; neither will there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more. The first things have passed away."

Note that God will dwell with mankind, other translations say that the tent of God is with Mankind, at the moment the tent of God isnt with mankind, thats why we have so much suffering, but when it is, when Gods Kingdom is here, he will wipe out every tear from our eyes, death will be no more.

 22:1He showed me a* river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb, 22:2in the middle of its street. On this side of the river and on that was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruits, yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 22:3There will be no curse any more.

A river of water of life!
And leaves of trees healing all our ailments!

When Jesus was on Earth, he didnt just perform miracles to show he was the son of God, he demonstrated the things he was capable of doing when he rules Gods Kingdom for him, he can cure the blind, lame sick, he can feed us all, and he can resurect the dead.
He can undo all the damage that alienation from God and his Kingdom has caused mankind.

If anybodies interested I will next indiacte from the scriptures who does rule the world at the moment which will show why its such a horrible place, show who does deserve the blame that we heap on God in our ignorance. 

[The Lonely, Boney One]

Hi all,
Ive just noticed that this is a childs board?
As Iam only a child in heart, I guess its inappropriate for me to be posting here?, especially as the next part of my "Bible study" involves revealing who really rules the world at the moment, that might be a bit frightening to a child.

So, unless I hear to the contary from the administrator, I will leave Bible study for the children, though of course if any child has a Biblical question, I would be most happy to post a reply. 

[teresa]

Hi Lonely Boney One,

You're fine...... A "child's board" refers to the Bible Study forum being a sub forum of the "Bible" forum.
Thanks for contributing......

[jessica25]

There are many things that happen that we do not understand.  I don't need a bible to know that.  I think that it's all a part of God's plan, even if it does hurt.  For being abused the way I was as a child and now being a parent, I think that we all have to live the life dealt to us with whatever we find compelling us within.  You need to drag out of you what makes you happy, even if it is wrong.  Only then when you know what it is may you overcome it.  Some of us are just lucky and get everything good and end up being great people while others start at the bottom and climb to the top.  Some of us start anywhere on the ladder and just never figure it out.  I am grateful to know that I am here to stop the cycle that is running in my family, generation after generation.  Beyond that, there may be more.  Since getting therapy and becoming a better person, since my baby was born last year, I'm thinking of adopting or fostering.  Sorry for rambling.  I think that we need to all be good, loving, caring people.  Reading the bible helps, but so do other things.  For inspiration I read "Conversations with God".  It's a pretty interesting read.

[The Lonely, Boney One]

Hi Jessica,
Whilst I agree with you to a certain extent such as you wrote :- "  You need to drag out of you what makes you happy, even if it is wrong.  Only then when you know what it is may you overcome it. "
and maybe the story of the prodigal son from the Bible illustrates this, where the son thought he could find more happiness living a sinfull life away from his Father, only to learn he wasnt.

But I certainly dont agree with you where you say this is Gods plan, for the Father himself didnt send his son away in order to learn how much better off he was at home.
This is precisely one of the reasons why the first line of the Lords prayer is Hallowed be thy name because we have all been propoganderised to blame God for all the ills that beset mankind.

Would you force bad things to happen to you infant child to help it learn? or would you just warn it first?, ie, would you hold your babies hand into the fire to teach it fire burns or would you tell the child to keep away from the fire and do all you could to protect it in the hope that when it is away from your care, it will be safe?

A reading of the Bible is Gods way of warning us about the dangers of certain courses of life, the one who makes bad things happen isnt God but the Devil, but he has arranged to get us all to blame God for the evil that he encourages us to do.

And if this suffering where part of Gods plan for us to learn, what about babies that are killed before they can even talk? what do they learn from this experience?
Or innocent children who are sexually molested?, did God arrange for these things to happen?, what sort of God would do such a thing and what possible good could come out of such horrors?

Iam not accusing you Jessica of holding the above negative views about God, but your post did hint at and give me an oppertunity to address a notion about God that many people do sincerely hold.

Our Father, which art in heaven, may thy name be revealed to be free of the sin that we have attributed to it. Amen.   

[The Lonely, Boney One]

So, last part of this topic, (unless somebody feels like discussing it further), is, if God doesnt run the world and so cannot be blamed for the evil that goes on, who does/can?

We read in Luke Chapter 4 where Satan is trying to tempt Jesus

5 So he brought him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in an instant of time; 6 and the Devil said to him: “I will give you all this authority and the glory of them, because it has been delivered to me, and to whomever I wish I give it. 7 You, therefore, if you do an act of worship before me, it will all be yours.”

So, the Devil can give any kingdom (Government) in any time, to whoever he wants.
This is backed up in Revelation 13 where we read,

 2 Now the wild beast that I saw was like a leopard, but its feet were as those of a bear, and its mouth was as a lion’s mouth. And the dragon gave to [the beast] its power and its throne and great authority.

Now Revelation 12 tells us that The dragon is Satan,

9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.

Now who then is the wild beast?, the same wild beast that people are familiar with via the following scripture.

15 And there was granted it to give breath to the image of the wild beast, so that the image of the wild beast should both speak and cause to be killed all those who would not in any way worship the image of the wild beast.

16 And it puts under compulsion all persons, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the slaves, that they should give these a mark in their right hand or upon their forehead, 17 and that nobody might be able to buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name. 18 Here is where wisdom comes in: Let the one that has intelligence calculate the number of the wild beast, for it is a man’s number; and its number is six hundred and sixty-six.

As an aside, this plan of World Banker Rockerfella sounds very much like we will soon be forced to get the mark of the beast,http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=3218585954111617501&q=Aaron+Russo%3A+The+Architecture+of+the+Prison+Planet&total=1&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

So who or what is the beast that is under Satans power and influence?

A read of Daniel Chapter 7 where Daniel reveals the interpretation of the Kings dream of Beasts to him, reveal them to be Human Kingdoms, such as,

  23 “This is what he said, ‘As for the fourth beast, there is a fourth kingdom that will come to be on the earth, that will be different from all the [other] kingdoms; and it will devour all the earth and will trample it down and crush it. 24 And as for the ten horns, out of that kingdom there are ten kings that will rise up; and still another one will rise up after them, and he himself will be different from the first ones, and three kings he will humiliate.

So, you ever wonder why Governments that are supposed to represent the voters who dont want war, seem so good at causing wars?

Satan controls the World, (until Gods Kingdom comes), he manipulates Human governments to carry out his will, (rather than Gods will, Let thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven).

More scriptural eveidence?

. 31 Now there is a judging of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. John 12

30 I shall not speak much with YOU anymore, for the ruler of the world is coming. And he has no hold on me, 31 but, in order for the world to know that I love the Father, even as the Father has given me commandment [to do], so I am doing.  (This is Jesus at John 14 v 30 telling us that the ruler of this world has no hold on him.

And finally from 1 John 5

19 We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the [power of the] wicked one.




Any questions, comments or further topics you want answers to, I would be only too happy to help.

May God bless your efforts to discover Him and his Son 

[Kirsty]

Hi Lonely Boney, Jessica and all.

I'm also midway through Conversations with God.. its good to keep as a kind of reference book to go back to I think every so often.

I never get into discussions about God if I can help it, because it can mean different things to different people and Truth is not a subject that I particularly want to enter into a debate about. I just want to feel it and live it as much as I can. I think maybe there are different roots to God that work differently for different people, however ultimately there can only be one Truth. But well.. as a one off I'll give you my take on this guys. 

The Bible says clearly that God is Infinite, Eternal, Omnipotent, All in All, universal Love. It says this several times in fact. I think then if that is true that its illogical to say that God is not ruling the world! How can there be infinity AND something else?  The Kingdom of God is within you.  How can there be God AND people? God AND satan?  Do we believe the bible? then this is clear. God is infinity, Omnipotence, Omniscience incorporating all living things and beyond.  The greatest error to beset mankind is this sense of dualism and its the basis of all the worlds suffering and want

I believe that God is ALL, but the confusion here lies in what we see with our eyes, perceive with our material senses . God isnt material he's spiritual totally. I believe we all are innately good and have that of God in all of us, whatever struggles, unhappiness, faults we seem to find in ourselves and people. There is that innate core that is good and intact and its only in returning to this real (higher) self that we find peace, healing and wholeness.   God made us however mankind has erred and wandered, has made wrong choices that were not from this Good base or based on Love and caring for our fellow man, but with free choice mankind evolved selfish motives .. and I mean mankind and how it has evolved rather than individuals .. then we reap havoc, suffering and chaos and ask God "why?". Even if this material planet evapourated tomorrow. The real man, the man/woman of God would still be intact, because its who we innately are and it is our Soul. I also think that if everyone prayed, had a perception of God and Love and practiced it, chaos and suffering would disolve, governments would make fair and ethical decisions, wealth food and other provisions would be evenly distributed eliminating disease, war would be unknown etc etc.. but suffering has a plan maybe, it makes us grow! In the agonies of suffering we become homesick for peace and love. Our spiritual "home", where we belong and so we strive for it. I read once "mans extremity is God's opportunity" and who hasnt reached out all the more ernestly when suffering whereas when we are comfortable in materialism .. do we bother?

I interpret "our father which art in heaven" to mean .. our father in the atmosphere (consciousness) of love, not a material location or destination.

I take "thy kingdom come" to mean thy kingdom IS come (here!)  Not a kingdom that is a location like Scotland, but the spiritual universe that is love, spirit, soul, that imbibes man (man in the generic sense .. woman too ) and not the other way round. I dont think we have to reach this Kingdom, but we need to learn to open our eyes and perceive what is already here, to be receptive to it.

I personally think the apex of God is Love. God is Love. I dont believe in Satan .. other than people have free will, evolve selfish motives and reap what ensues... we make our own hell and for that of others on our planet really. 

In order to have a relationship with God and find healing for ourselves and our world we need to get out of the theory and intellectualising and learn to open our hearts to receive the Spirit. I am still searching for a better connection and struggle with this sometimes. However I have had some beautiful glimpses that prove the Whole to me

I hope the love of God fills all our hearts and makes us feel whole and that we become more gentle, tolerant, forgiving and peaceful to ourselves and that we find healing and wholeness that spills out and reaches the world. God undoubtedly is Love

[mowgli]

I have always been nauseated by humans trying to tell me what God is and what God wants and does and stuff like that...of course I have my own sense of what God is and so, of course I must suffer my own nausea of myself for having to put in my 2 cents...

I see God as a natural phenomenon, part of the universe and earth and the sun and everthing, as love that we feel...everyone has some sense of God, just that we as humans have splintered it into little pieces so that we can make sense of it...and have power over it..."God Is" and it doesn't matter what the Mormons or the Lutherans think, God still just is as God is...and I feel love in my soul and that I should live a kindly loving life the best I can will bring me that much closer to God...

I consider myself a Christian, but not in that regards, but in the spirit of what Jesus taught...if I go to hell because I don't do what the self proclaimed Christian leaders tell me, then so be it...I don't belong to any church.  It makes me nervous and nauseates me to be part of a church. 

If I was born in a Muslim country I would be Muslim...and still believe what I do, that I should allow what is good in the Koran to guide me, what is good that Mohammed teaches guide me. 

Same is true of other places and things, in India I would be Hindu
In Israel I would be Jewish
To me there is one God, and Love the same for all humanity...One Love. 
 

[topo_piccolo]

I've belonged to a few different churches over the years and pretty much decided that organized religion in general just isn't for me.

I believe that God isn't a "person" (doesn't look like Charlton Heston playing Moses) as much as he is a "force."  I think that God created life and then turned it loose to do its own thing.  It isn't God that performs or permits "evil," it's PEOPLE.  They can choose what they will or will not do.

I think that "God" is the place where all of the answers will eventually come together.

[mowgli]

Topo,

I thought about starting my own religion...I think it was L. Ron Hubbard who said the quickest way to get rich was to start your own religion...I could use a few bucks 

Man is so arrogant sometimes...it blows me away. 

[serenity1953]

God made man out of love. While the depth of His love is hard for me to understand, I know that it was love that gave me free will. It was the free will that God gave to Adam that gave him choice to love God in return and to obey Him. The choice to obey kept Adam in relationship with God. The choice to disobey the one rule that God had given Adam, put sin between God and Adam. Man chose evil. God did not. The one rule was to not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Adam knew that eating of the tree would mean death. (Death ended up being spiritual death, seperation between God and Adam.) Eve was deceived by Satan. He told her she would be like God. She chose power over relationship with God. Adam chose Eve over relationship with God.
God is the source of love. When we look at ourselves and our desires instead of obedience to him, we are choosing evil over God's love. His desire for us to be obedient is to be able to bless us. Check out Deuteronomy 28. (Blessings for Obedience, and Curses for Disobedience.)
I do not understand everything that happens on earth. But I do know that God the Father knew that this would happen and prepared a plan to send His Son to redeem me. Out of love, Jesus said "I will" to the plan. He came, He carried it out and now His Spirit lives in me to guide me into deeper relationship with Him. No. Life is not perfect. But I trust him to lead me through it.
I am on this site for good reasons. I have been married for 37 years. I see where Satan has used many of his tricks, including the abuses that both my husband and myself suffered. And the results of them. But He led us through this and will continue to lead us. I am grateful for the love that God has blessed myself and my family with. We are the parents of five and grandparents of fifteen. There have been and will be struggles. The world is wicked. But I do not blame God for it. Man has chosen. I can only walk as God asks me to so others may see, and maybe make a different choice. Matthew 28:18-20 asks me to do just that.