Thoughts?

[Miele]

John, admitting responsibility for ones own action, taking ownership of ones future and knowing that future is in no-ones  hands but your own ( talking generally not directly at you here) us a hard lesson.

I am scared of getting things wrong was always happily blaming my parents for my past.  Until the day I realised that although they are responsible for my past abuse. I cannot blame them for my future. I have to Try and step forward not be scared and take the rest of my life in my hands.


 

[chris]

Andi
i agree.
i think religion is or can be an extension of a person at time and with all religions things just dont add up if you look for flaws. (which i do)
as far as the christian religion... if god is all knowing and all forgiving why would unbaptized children be stuck in limbo, why would the bad guys end up in hell if they are forgiven. sorry.. i think to much.

[Bipolarheart]

"God desires all to attain to repentance", which means getting into our hearts and changing our feelings about sin.  Those that like sin without regard for Gods feelings and decisions as to whats spiritually beautiful, or the concern for nieghbor whether loving, those hardened in a course of sin and are unwilling to pursue repentance will not fair well during judgement.

Hell if you look in the right place will discover its a word for the common grave of mankind, it is not a literal place, but a spirtual lie thats not a bible inspired teaching.  Remember Lazarus that Jesus said he was sleeping while he was asleep in death?

During the 1000 year kingdom of christ, before the final test, Paul said there was going to be a "resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous".  God is not all forgiving but "hopes all things".  During Armageddon when Satan will embolden many of mankind to actually want to murder and kill Gods servants on earth will step in and protect his poeple , those persons caught up in that murderous spirit will most definately be sent to Gehena the figurative place of being erased from Gods memory so as not to be given a resurrection, not sent to hellfire of eternal torment.  Adam and Eve were told they would die, not sent to hell, as we use the term today.


Religion really isn't the point of things,  even Gods approved "religious" activity thru the ages has changed.  The real purpose is to try to find a way to find the true spirit from God.  The "image"  that we lost because of adam and eves sin spoken about in the first chapters of Genesis.  Yes you can point to certian persons in history that had some blessings,  but the promises now are for everyone worldwide.  Jews are no longer, nor was it intended to be the only nation.  whatever poeple think of supposed superiority of anyone is not the thoughts of God.

Jesus has an interesting way of judging during the judgement.  he said that those on his right hand of favor "were those blessed by my father".  The bible does speak of two spiritual vines on the earth, and in the last days the two vines would ripen, and as persons choose which spiritual vine they want to be on the traights of the vine will ripen,  those who ripen wickedly will show themselves what they are, those who are on the other vine will ripen away from wickedness but to righteousness.  Its not a question of religion but a question of a love of God and truth and true spirituality.

God just wants us to live the best way possible.  He made us and knows what will be the most happiest way of living.  We experience a lot of weird things in our hearts, but thats not really Gods fault, we left him not the otherway around.  So he's let us be indipendant from him for a time cause thats what we wanted, but he knew what we would discover, that his way is really the best way of living. Its just not easy for us right now to see it do to various asundry reasons.

All this being said God did prophecy he would appoint a "faithful and dicreet slave"  or a steward, and "establish an administration to gather again in the christ" during the last days, and no doubt these fullfill the prophecy in danial chapter 12 about "many will rove about and the true knowledge will become abundant on the earth".

[Peace, Love and Pretzels]

welcome back bph.  You know we all missed you here.  I so hope that you are well

God just wants us to live the best way possible. 

based on the above statement that you made, may I ask with all due respect?  Do you believe that religious split offs (RC, Anglican, Bhudist etc) are all unnecessary to the worshiping of god?  Do we need to attend a house of god, go to confessions, bow in a certain direction in order to serve this god?  What exactly is the process of leaving god?  Is it to do with good and evil? 

I agree with your heart statement - I try my best to live from my heart - have to be honest my AD the way it presents really helps in that way.  I need to say that it is not for the faint of heart to live that way.  Tons of people take advantage, purposely - those that do. 

[Conrad]

>>God just wants us to live the best way possible.  He made us and knows what will be the most happiest way of living.  We experience a lot of weird things in our hearts,<<

We deal with them every single day right here.

>>but thats not really Gods fault, we left him not the otherway around.  So he's let us be indipendant from him for a time cause thats what we wanted, but he knew what we would discover, that his way is really the best way of living. Its just not easy for us right now to see it do to various asundry reasons.<<

Just as we sometimes have to let our children find their way.

[Bipolarheart]

PLP.

Religious contentions has been an issue on earth for a very long time.  Why is that?  in the book of Gensis there is a referance to "there was a calling upon the name of Jehovah"(gods name as common to english- you can find it in the kings james version in 4 places).  This calling upon the name of God with all evidence was not a respectful true way of worship as the only servants of god on earth at that time of 2000 years favorably mentioned by name was Abel, enoch, noah and his family.  Noah was a preacher of righteousness yet those who were "calling on the name of Jehovah" never listened nor helped nor repented nor got on the Ark in faith, they laughed at him till the flood did arrive.

Being that satan lied to the first parents of man, adam and eve, whats the bets that he's responsible for religious lies and divisions and contentions?  During that time before the flood the fallen angels were on earth promoting all kinds of sinful ways.  They materialized bodies and had relations with women and had hybrid offspring that were bullys and men murdurers called nephilim.  No doubt these 'angels" were also responsible for this " calling upon the name of jehovah"  that was false and not approved.

After the flood there was another organized movement on earth but not in true service to God and his spirit.  The account about Nimrod  making a name for himself, being a "mighty hunter in opposition to Jehovah".  Apparently this was not just simple game sport but was a murdurous hunting of men,  certainly the way he carved out the first empire and made cities to himself was against Gods spirit of things.  Guess who had a hand in promoting that spirit?  Yup..probly satan most assuredly.   The account says that they were united in there opposition to god and were making cities and temples which most likely included some form of worship of false religious lies.  God decided to confuse the languages at that time to scatter them, as at that time there was only one language on earth, so as to spread them over the earth cause that was his purpose for them as expressed to Noah when he came out of the ark.  The interesting part of this is that the religion they all had in common they also took, this was not a faithful true form of service to god, but was a false form of worship. that now has spread everywhere.  You can pick up on the patterns if you look for them.  The cross used in worship can be seen in egypt/american indians/ and i can't think of if i've read when the "christians' picked up the cross but it wasn't during the time of Jesus and the apostles and the first century of our common era.  The hindu religion has doctrines of hellfire, trinity,Immortal souls; does that sound familiar to some religions that you know?

To follow the logic here The place that the center of this opposition to God was babel  or babylon, where they were making a huge temple into the sky to escape another flood, if it came, cause for some odd reason they were afraid of the creator?  why would they be if they were trying to live by faith and spirit?  This significance comes into play with understanding the Book of revelation.  In revalation chapter 18  you can understand the symbolism more when you think of this religious spiritual entity thats on earth of spiritual unity by being spiritual lies spread around from babylon that causes confusion about truth of God the creator and correct accurate ways of truth and spirit.  The bible can identify all the lies, even so there still needs to be a blessing cause many have had copies of the bible and misunderstood it or misused it for thier own purposes and not the purpose of God.

Abraham is very favorably mentioned in the christian greek scriptures by the apostle paul.  Abraham was acceptable to god and yet at the time he lived on earth thier was no real set "religion"  poeple just understood if you feared god or not.  Not the type of fear of punishment but a fear of not gaining acceptance and favor with the creator.  type of fear a young child would have in wanting to please his parents.

Yes the nation of isreal was set up, but the apostle Paul later revealed that "the Law was a tutor leading to christ".  That a perfect given law and form of worship or religion will not help you escape from sin and death, so it doesn't matter our "religion", but what matters is our faith and wanting to be acceptable to god in accuracy and truth.  being that we are tied to sin and death irreversably do to our not having any power over death, we look to God and the ransom arrangment set up by Jesus to give us the gift of working out repentance in our life.  Not by religion  but by true faith and friendship with God, the way Abraham was when he recieved the promises of a "city having true foundations'.  This city would be Gods city and would not be over thrown.  In todays terms we would call that a government.  And thats whats been promised.  Daniel 2:44 promises a government not made by human hands will come out of heaven and destroy mans way of governing as history has born out no matter what they try non of them are perfect nor can restore peace with God and everlasting life.

Revelation reveals that the City or government of God that comes down is extremely spiritually beautiful, as if made by all precious gems and gold and metals of delight.  This same radiant beauty is also the type God has so his beauty will be reflected.  We have no comprehension of the delight in our hearts we will have from that beauty but the promise is that its something we've not experienced before.  Satan lies to us with immoral sex, drugs, violence,  and whatever else that effects our heart,  but when that spiritual beauty will be seen we will see the utter lies for themselfs in all its plainness.

Hebrews 10:24 mentions that we would need to gather together in the last days to be encouraging, so take that how you will,  but forcing someone to do what they don't want to do is not gods ways.  We need to worship(or serve)  him out of a willing happy, joyful, friendly way,  not out of compulsion nor compelled,  but a clean heart filled with faith, kindness, joy, love, friendship.

Prophecy's bear out that God would have approved servants on earth during the last days. But even they would need to walk in modesty and humility as we all are together in sin and death.

[Peace, Love and Pretzels]

I am so sorry BPH, I have such a hard time with bible phrases these days.  So can't concentrate and decode them.  I am not at all trying to disrespect the obvious thought that you put into both of your posts on this subject.  I am very spiritual in nature.  To me, spiritual means the following things"

- compassionate heart
- put myself out there for people in need
- appreciate and respect the power of the universe
- appreciate and respect the fragility of nature
- giving of myself for others - whether I know them or not
- treat others as I would like to be treated (actually better than myself - which is inherently a problem)
- fight for the underdog
- reach out to those that are lonely or grief stricken etc

RC religion was forced on me as a youngster.  I totally bought in until I understood the hypocracy of my parent's *sorry, mother's* position.  So, with an organized religion no longer being and option for me.  In the eyes of religion (most) I am damned to hell for not conforming to a religion.  If I don't bow down to their god, if I don't follow protocol.  If I do all of these others things (above) and put my entire being into being the best that I can in that way, should I not be judged as being a non believer? 

I believe, in something.  Something great made all of this around us - maybe Yahweh, Jehova, Hari-krishna, Allah, maybe God, maybe whoever you want to call he or she - there are many different stories out there - but if I guess incorrectly who I should be honouring, does that really mean that everything I did here was for naught at the end of the day?  I am good with that - because I have my own belief system, but I like to think that your idea that satan drives this type of thought as being proper.

Nice to have you back...

Missed you

[Bipolarheart]

setting aside bad experiences where do you go with these questions.


1)Is there a creator?  evolution chance of life just beggining, or intelligent designer a creator.

2) if you believe in a creator that can plan how to create the universe, then plan how to form solor systems and planets and galaxies so as to protect life that he planned to create on a planet, then create the life on the planet in such a eco system as our own to be self supporting and versatile so as to have a form of living thats pleasing and pleasant enough to live forever with.  Can said creator communicate with his creation?  would he have a book or collection of books or letters that we could call inspired?

3) how could you test the book as to being authenticly written by God and not men?

4) if you established a trust based on hard evidence how then would you use that book to enlighten yourself as to the way God thinks?

what do you want to know about God? Lots just harp on the don't do this, don't do that, be a good little person.  But it really doesn't get into the principle of things,  the whys, the sense, the understanding.  they get into thi slittle religious routine that bestows some title os "good person".  then they get complacent and happy and don't know that they actually don't know God at all.


the question is....do you really...want to get to know your creator, regardless of bad experiences.  Who.s to blame for the bad experiences.  put the blame on the right spiritual person,  cause the devil is a spiritual person aswell,  but he's dark and irreversible a rebel against God. he is the first lier and manslayer, and revelation in chapter 12 says that he is angry and is waging war. In the last days he would be "thrown to the vicinity of the earth knowing he has a short period of time."

in someway i believe our hearts have two spiritual fathers and we have a struggle inside us as to the choices we make internally of who to listen too.  Our heart is a blessing and an enemy all at the same time.  satan somehow can get into our hearts to some degree and yet our conscience also tries to help us make better decisions to learn to ignore those conflicting messages,  but some choose the bad ways,  just what happens.  Not that they can't repent cause they can but some after a time just learn to love the bad ways and in some way become irriversible.  God makes those decisions.  and jesus makes his decisions on who he sees his father blesses.  i believe you can have blessings away from religion, but you can also have blessing if you find those who understand the bible correctly and learn from them.  not in a haughty brown nose way that "my is the only religion'  but being confident that the current revealed present truth about the creator is shared and we are just trying to encourage one another.

[Peace, Love and Pretzels]

what you say makes sense, and I don't in any way shape or form state there is no god (or there is a god) for a reason based on my past bad events.  Almost all of those I can see as having good come from them.  I choose to make it so - just some of the good hides itself or a very, very, very, very, incredibly long time. 

I just wonder whether we all assume that 'our book' is the right one.  There are so many spiritual books out there - they are all filled with increible wisdom.  But given what you are saying, I can't help but think that there is an argument as to whose book is right. 

What if, just say, none of them are?  What if we are meant to follow our hearts, and are responsible for keeping our hearts as pure as possible?  What if there was no 'heavenly' reward at the end?  Would religion still hold the glitter that it does?  Would people do the right thing if there was no payoff in the end?  Would they do it just because they knew it was right?  Because they cared about the quality of other's life experiences? 

What if we are all one?  What if we are god?  All life?  Collectively?  What if what I do affects your quality of life and yours affects mine?  What if I am only trying to do for others because I truly care for others?  What if karma is the thing?  What if passing it foward is the thing?  What if we all followed our hearts true purpose?  Do you think that this world would be the hell that it is for many people? 

What if gods real lessonis do unto others and we all flunk?  What if it isn't about honouring him so we can get to heaven for our own personal gain but instead, do for others where here is no noticable gain but a world eventually filled with instead  unselfishness, compassion and empathy? 

[chris]

what you say makes sense, and I don't in any way shape or form state there is no god (or there is a god) for a reason based on my past bad events.  Almost all of those I can see as having good come from them.  I choose to make it so - just some of the good hides itself or a very, very, very, very, incredibly long time. 

I just wonder whether we all assume that 'our book' is the right one.  There are so many spiritual books out there - they are all filled with increible wisdom.  But given what you are saying, I can't help but think that there is an argument as to whose book is right. 

What if, just say, none of them are?  What if we are meant to follow our hearts, and are responsible for keeping our hearts as pure as possible?  What if there was no 'heavenly' reward at the end?  Would religion still hold the glitter that it does?  Would people do the right thing if there was no payoff in the end?  Would they do it just because they knew it was right?  Because they cared about the quality of other's life experiences? 

What if we are all one?  What if we are god?  All life?  Collectively?  What if what I do affects your quality of life and yours affects mine?  What if I am only trying to do for others because I truly care for others?  What if karma is the thing?  What if passing it foward is the thing?  What if we all followed our hearts true purpose?  Do you think that this world would be the hell that it is for many people? 

What if gods real lessonis do unto others and we all flunk?  What if it isn't about honouring him so we can get to heaven for our own personal gain but instead, do for others where here is no noticable gain but a world eventually filled with instead  unselfishness, compassion and empathy? 

what if we are all wrong . what if there is nothing or what if it has nothing to do with any religon

[One Confused Puppy]

I wish I could believe.  I really do.  When I joined the very conservative church (where I met DH) I came to realize that while the religion itself was phony as a three-dollar bill, and if you got right down to it, just plain TOXIC, but there was a very strong sense of community to it. (I was in an exceedingly vulnerable place emotionally, when I joined it.  I don't believe I would have, otherwise.)

I eventually resigned formally from that church.  I had to, to maintain my own moral integrity.  And with that, I lost all faith in religion, per se.  I was totally disillusioned.

I know many people - including my own sweet DH - who derive a great deal of comfort from their spiritual beliefs.  But I just can't talk to somebody that doesn't seem to be there.  I wouldn't even mind long-distance charges, if I just had the feeling that somebody would answer, if you get my drift.

[Bipolarheart]

Try looking up a few translations of hebrews 11:1 about a little definition of faith.  Whats faith based on?  is it something your born with per say? If yes is it something that still needs to be worked on?  proven?

Are the answers out there? daniel 12:3,4; ephesians 1:10,  mt 24:45-47

[Conrad]

BPH,

It's ironic how many people are willing to extend the benefit of the doubt on things like "climate change" and the like - but not with the Creator.

When you look at all the things that can go wrong (or could have gone wrong) with your own body - or with creation - and how those small differences would have extinguished all life.......

It's pretty clear that there's a spiritual aspect to all of this.

JD