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Author Topic: Did anybody abandon religion altogether?  (Read 1129 times)
topo_piccolo
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« on: November 16, 2008, 10:55:33 pm »

I pretty much have.  I have gotten very burned-out and cynical about organized religion in general.

It seems to me that if there is any kind of deity at all, it is something like the law of gravity.  It is whatever is behind keeping the cosmos ticking.  It does not give a rat's rear about individuals, let alone what those individuals do, say, or think.

For example:  Let's put the Queen of England, the Pope, and Charles Manson on an airplane and fly it up to around 30,000 feet.  Then let's toss each of them out.  What's going to happen?  Each of them will go "ker-SPLAT" and die.  Why?  Because the laws of physics and gravity don't care how good or bad or rich or decent or important somebody is.  They apply the same to everybody.  No weaseling out for good or bad behavior.  No miracles.  Just ker-SPLAT.

How can you possibly have a "relationship" with something like the law of gravity?

Also, if you look at it rationally, most of the world's current and past problems have been brought about by some form of mule-headed mis-application of religion.  Have you noticed that tyrants LOVE to claim that God is on THEIR side?  The Crusades.  The Holocaust.  9/11.  It just goes on and on.

I don't mean to run down anybody else's beliefs.  I may even be jealous of the ability to believe. 
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pete42
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« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2008, 11:06:02 am »

Maybe I am a touch naive, but I do not look at religion as rational.  It's totally a faith thing.  You believe, or you don't.  I feel that if you look around at all the beauty that exists, there  must be a God who created it - I don't believe in "accidents" - especially of the magnitude that must have taken place to lead "evolution" (plants, animals, the universe) to grow into what we have now.   

I have faith that the 'religion' I follow is the truth, and I pray for more faith.  I believe that our creator gave us free will - to follow/seek Him, or not.  If the choice is "Not", then there are consequences.  Simple.  Like if you choose to have sex outside of marriage, there are several possible consequences - among them are pregnancy, STDs, etc.  If you chose to be brutal, there is the possible consequence of yourself being brutallized, imprisoned, condemned, etc.  Unfortunately, there is much wrong and there are many innocent victims - but somewhere along the line, SOME ONE made a choice, and the 'unfairness' is a consequence. 

In other words, I do not blame God for man's inhumanity to man.  That is man-made, man provoked, man curable.  But that requires man to make the proper choices to eliminate the inecquities.  There is violence in nature, to be sure - but again, man chooses to live in the areas that have natural dangers.  Not nature's fault.  Along those lines, why do I have to pay for YOUR choices?  You choose to live in a flood plain, and suddenly get flooded, why do I, living on the hill, have to pay for your decision?   Along those lines, why do I, a taxpayer, have to bailout your business when it is mis-managed?  Same principle.

Anyway, back on point, I am a convert to Catholism within the last several years.  Spent many years going from Protestant Church to Protestant Church looking for a comfort zone.  Many have "principles" according to who the pastor/preacher is.  If I disagree, I can work within the community to change the view (and who says MINE is right?), or move on to another church.  The Catholics are more hard core, if you will.  This is right - that is wrong!  Period.  I like that - I do not like a ton of "gray".  It confuses the issue, and again, is fashioned after the belief of whoever is preacher at the time.  And I like that I can trace my church back to the founder of "Christian" religion, Jesus Christ.  Most other churches are off-shoots and go back no further than 500 years, tops.  Why not go for the real thing?  Yes, there were issues of corruption and mismanagement, etc. years ago - but doesn't that prove our humanity?  And the fact that even our church fathers have "choice"?  Aren't those issues being addressed?  Of course.

People say the church is full of hypocrites.  Exactly!  Isn't that where they belong?  And, why not join us - we can always use one more!  Remember - Jesus didn't come to save the righteous - He came to save the sinner!  Since we are ALL sinners to one degree or another, why not let Him save us?  And since we have ALL sinned, regardless of degree, we are ALL sinners in need of salvation.  "No greater sinner was, then I" said Paul.  I'm right there with him - there is not one Commandment that hasn't been broken, through word, deed, or thought.  We're all equal.  Even the priests - the Pope - all of us.

Okay - I've rattled on enough, I relinquish the pulpit to some one else.   Grin
Hope this helps, tho, topo

God Bless


(re-reading this, I found spelling mistakes - so I corrected them.   Wink )
« Last Edit: March 11, 2009, 07:00:06 am by pete42 » Logged

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topo_piccolo
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« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2008, 03:31:17 pm »

Pete, you are an angel.  The main person I was hoping to hear from.  I know that you "believe" and I also know that you are a person of exceptional intelligence.  I wanted to understand how you arrived at where you are, and I thank you for taking the time to reply.

A woman poet from the Colonial Era - maybe Anne Bradstreet but I'm not sure - once wrote, "Creation pre-supposes a Creator."  I love that.  There's no arguing with it. 

I also have a lot of respect for the Catholic church and its ancient roots.  I visited many cathedrals in Europe and definitely felt awe and reverence there.

But I'm really burned out on the human applications of religion and that's what I am trying to work through.  You have given me some excellent ideas to work with - thanks, bro!
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 12:56:43 pm by topo_piccolo » Logged
miele
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« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2009, 01:20:16 pm »

i cant bear "religion" in any conventional form..
i have never felt the need to pray to think of anything being able to guide me help me.
no spiritual awareness at all.

maybe its kind of part of ad for me.. i dont need anyone kind of thing ..
( mine is pretty extreme i could live the rest of my life without another person fairly easily)
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Peace, Love and Pretzels
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« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2009, 04:12:44 pm »

Yes, I abandoned religion (organized) altogether.  I consider myself spiritual
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UniquelyFlawed
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« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2009, 04:22:24 pm »

i never had it to abandon it in the first place
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Katerin
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« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2009, 04:54:42 pm »

I pretty much have.  I have gotten very burned-out and cynical about organized religion in general.

It seems to me that if there is any kind of deity at all, it is something like the law of gravity.  It is whatever is behind keeping the cosmos ticking.  It does not give a rat's rear about individuals, let alone what those individuals do, say, or think.

For example:  Let's put the Queen of England, the Pope, and Charles Manson on an airplane and fly it up to around 30,000 feet.  Then let's toss each of them out.  What's going to happen?  Each of them will go "ker-SPLAT" and die.  Why?  Because the laws of physics and gravity don't care how good or bad or rich or decent or important somebody is.  They apply the same to everybody.  No weaseling out for good or bad behavior.  No miracles.  Just ker-SPLAT.

How can you possibly have a "relationship" with something like the law of gravity?

Also, if you look at it rationally, most of the world's current and past problems have been brought about by some form of mule-headed mis-application of religion.  Have you noticed that tyrants LOVE to claim that God is on THEIR side?  The Crusades.  The Holocaust.  9/11.  It just goes on and on.

I don't mean to run down anybody else's beliefs.  I may even be jealous of the ability to believe. 




I am posting "The Hope" visdeo here if anyone is interested in viewing it.
http://www.christiananswers.net/hope/thehope-full-length.html


In response to Pete 42: It's totally a faith thing.  You believe, or you don't.  I feel that if you look around at all the beauty that exists, there  must be a God who created it - I don't believe in "accidents" - especially of the magnitude that must have taken place to lead "evolution" (plants, animals, the universe) to grow into what we have now.   


I say well spoken Pete ...well spoken
M

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Bipolarheart
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« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2009, 09:01:06 pm »

Hi.

Heb. 1:11 "Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld"
faith should be based on evidence.  You should have enough knowledge to feel confident God exists, and as pete sais usually most have common sense to figure out evolution is a lie that has no evidence and thinking persons regard creation as having a creator.


There are personality traights that make it tougher to congregate with others as in attending a "church' for organized religous services.
heb 10:24,25" Incite to love and fine works- not forsaking the gathering togather as some have the custom."  Some try to maker this a command, but in all commands it tends to make an avenue for judging and labeling as sinners dividing you off from undeserved kindness.  But the reason for organizing is to "incite' and encourage others and yourself.  The problem isn't oraganizing but who your organized with. 


Andi brings up a good point about being spiritual.  many in history have kept spiritual though having no one to oraganize with, many prophets in the Bible record have showed a great deal of spiritual fortitude though having non or very few to organize with, so spirituality is the main thing.


Whats the value of organizing?

heb 10:25 " encouraging one another- more as you behold the day drawing near."



Who to organize with?
Mt 24:45-47 "Who really is the faithful and discreet slave--?"
Eph 1:9,10 "purposed- an administration at the full limit of the appointed times, to gather all things together again in the christ."
daniel 12: 3,4  "...make secret the words..., until the time of the end. Many will rove about and the true knowledge will become abundant."

who not to oraganize with?

2thes 2:3 "Apostacy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed."
Rev. 18:2 "Babylon the great... a dwelling place of demons..."
Rev. 18:4 " get out of her my poeple"
All false religion who knowingly like and carry on lies about the creator. 

 


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Katerin
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« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2009, 10:00:07 am »

Here is an intersting article on the topic of "church" ...if anyone is interested.
http://www.noble-minded.org/gathering.html

"Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another--and all the more as you see the Day approaching." ~ Hebrews 10:25~ angel5
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CryTears
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« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2009, 01:48:03 pm »

I pretty much have. ....For example:  Let's put the Queen of England, the Pope, and Charles Manson on an airplane and fly it up to around 30,000 feet.  Then let's toss each of them out.  What's going to happen?  Each of them will go "ker-SPLAT" and die.  Why?  Because the laws of physics and gravity don't care how good or bad or rich or decent or important somebody is.  They apply the same to everybody.  No weaseling out for good or bad behavior.  No miracles.  Just ker-SPLAT......

Sorry, but I don't agree with this story because "in my world" Charles Manson will be the one to have lived because some crazy anomaly would happen...like he landed on a huge pile of cushions.....and he'll be around another hundred years to hurt and destroys other lives....for me, the bad guy always wins!
Actually I'm not trying to be disagreeable to anyone here...but for me, my life has been nothing but one bad trial to another.
Starting with my conception.
My father was so angry that he left my mother...she chased and hunted him down clear across the US with me in tow...she found him. I was nearly 2 yrs old...it was instant hate when he laid eyes on me.
Instead of kissing and hugging me...
his long lost child...he kicked and slapped at me.
I received the first of many beatings before me 2nd birthday.
He blamed ME for his failures and was very open with his beliefs.
He always told my husband that it was MY fault he didn't become a doctor.
And of course he taught my entire family to hate, despise me....I was older, 7, 9 and 21 years older than my siblings.
While my "father" gambled and drank...my mom worked full time as a nurse. She put me in charge of my siblings and I became a full grown "mother" at age 9. So I had no childhood. My mom worked the 3-11 shift...most important time for children...but she put all the responsibility on me. What's really sad is she was "religious" but never went to church...but she taught me that God would punish me for any wrong I'd commit. She used God as the boogeyman to keep me in line, not "sin".
Later in life I joined a church...but to me, God was still one to be afraid of and I've never viewed Him as loving and kind.
I still go to church...but my heart is soooo not into going...my body is there, but my spirit is gone.
I'm surprised God hasn't pulled the rug out from under me for being such a liar...yes, liar!
I tell you...this is the honest truth...ANYTHING I've asked God for...any blessing....I NEVER receive and end up getting opposite!
The verse that says "Ask for a Fish"....I get a stone instead.
Its like God hates me just like my bio sperm donor did.
My mom stayed with him 43 yrs till she finally divorced him. I helped her get away, so my entire family blames me for
breaking up our family...of course they shun me and haven't spoken to me in 20 yrs.
My own body has betrayed me...I have numerous auto immune diseases and even suffered a baseball sized intestinal aneurism that bled for 3 years...all they could do was give me blood transfusions until they found it.
I had more than 50 transfusions...and I HATE needles! Talk about a virtual nightmare!
And any wonder my initials are CRY...how crazy is this?
If God were merciful and loving...He would have allowed me to die when I was kidnapped, drugged and raped...I was 14 when I was taken by a man I'd only met once. I'd asked God for a friend as I was terribly lonely...my sisters were in foster care while I'd been left alone to fend for myself entire summer while she was in nursing school. I met this girl at a park...a week later, her father was the one who kidnapped, then drugged and raped me...see...I asked for a fish and got a stone!
I do believe in God...and yes Jesus was nice man...but not to me!
Does anyone blame me for the way I feel?
I haven't even told you what happened the next 3 years....I really suffered...our home was destroyed by a flood...nothing was left except 2 walls. I'd just turned 17 a month earlier. My folks got a 2 bedroom apartment. A bedroom for themselves and a bedroom for my 2 sisters.
My mom told me that God was angry at entire family because I was a bad girl because I had a poster on my bedroom wall, she said was Satanic bcuz it had the words "Groovy". She told me I was not welcome to stay there and for me to find someone to take me in...I was sent out to fend for myself and all I had was a paper sack that held all my possessions...a change of underwear and a toothbrush and that was it. I wandered the streets all alone, sobbing and feeling rejected.
I was no longer wanted or needed as my siblings no longer needed a babysitter.
My mom didn't even kiss me goodbye. Things went downhill from there until I met Larry...my husband. But he's dying of mouth cancer he's battled since he was 36 yrs old...and NO...he does NOT smoke, drink or chew tobacco.
His folks despised and hated me, blamed me for his cancer because he loved me and accepted me and my illegitimate baby.
Its a very sad story...and who the heck wants to read about any of this? Any wonder no one cares about me...even God!?
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Peace, Love and Pretzels
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« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2009, 02:49:33 pm »

Tough, tough go.  I am afraid to say that I have a story that might rival yours.  Actually it sounds like even YOU don't care about yourself.  It would be a difficult thing to do given the adversity that you have faced.  One thing I have learned however is that you can't expect love and kindness in your world if you are not willing to extend it to yourself.  What I haven't heard in this story is how you have had the strength and power to survive all of this.  Would love to hear it from that angle instead of the 'they did this and that angle'.  Clearly you got through it so you are strong as ox.  Give yourself the credit you deserve and tell that story with a bit of 'I got through this' instead of a 'they did this' angle and see how much more empowered you are.

Hugs hon

Andi
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Katerin
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« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2009, 05:03:59 pm »

I agree with Andi on this one....that SUCKED, yes it did....BUT you arrvived and you are here. Youa re a survivor! Like Andi has stated....going forward, tell your story from the angle that this happened to me and this is how I survived it!
Sadly, there are others with similiar stories....I personally could tell you stories too but, I choose to try not to look back as much as possible...
(((((((Hugs to you)))))))))
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« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2009, 12:35:30 am »

OK, so hubby and I visited the zoo last weekend.  We have a new baby elephant and a few other baby critters.

And watching TV shows about animals, I am ALWAYS suckered in by how cute "baby" critters are.  (I emphatically exclude arachnids and crocodiles here;  they are not cute under ANY circumstances.) I may be more susceptible to this than a lot of people.  I don't dare take my checkbook or credit cards into kitten "Adopt-a-thons."

Anyway, I got to thinking:  Maybe, just maybe, in the Great Cosmic Scheme of Things, baby critters are created in such a way as to appeal to some primeval "cuteness receptor" in the brains of adult critters.  The "cuteness receptor" may be what causes mother critters to be so fiercely protective of baby critters. Do you s'pose??

I could almost convince myself that something as cool as a "cuteness receptor" kind of pre-supposes a Creator.

Do you suppose there could be a Nobel prize in store for me down the road somewhere for coming up with the idea of a "cuteness receptor?"  Remember, you read about it HERE first!!   
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Peace, Love and Pretzels
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« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2009, 06:20:05 am »

Thank GOD I surround myself with smart friends!  Grin
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« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2009, 06:47:21 pm »

i wrote the below a few years back. when i was young i decided the convental religions where wrong and developed my own religin. i think the bases was more realistic or scientific in nature. there is an explination for everything in the world. i believe the world was formed out of the chaose of the universe and people evolved first from subatomic particalls then other forms of mass structor. i think the same force is probably in all people thow latent in some. i think we are a part of what created the universe no mater what name the higher power we should be giving praze to our selves and honor the part of our selves and other parts of our selves. i think people have the ability to controle there own destiney and are free and responcible agents of there desiers.
 i think people have the ability to alter both past present and future. what hapens in the past sets the ground work for one future. there for if wrighting between the lines of events and looking at them in another way a person can alter there future. it is imposible at this time to change the past as the cronoligy has already been set and there has yet to be a way to intervean in the flow and flucx of the past successions. but looking at things in a maner that make one appear difrent to others apears to be a good way of thinking. though it will not take away physical scars or psycological ones its sitll kind of a cool thought.

Faith

what is faith but an obscured notion that people are not in control of their lives, a notion that what ever a person does is some how not within his own control , a benevolent being solaces to the lonely, a Devine being that requires worship and obedience from its subjects in order for them to obtain happiness , this divinity people speak of and request intervention from when he or she feel un able to continue on a path of their own. A person is said to give them selves over to the higher power and then enlightenment will commence.
Is this the true act of a benevolent being. Is this the same being that sits idol by while people of its fath. undergo strife, and famine. Is this the same mighty supposedly supernatural force that is supposedly present when innocent people are victimized or the force that dues nothing when a child is being tortured. One relies on this being not so he can empower him self but so if he is enable to achieve what is desired out of life there is some one to blame it on. Or is it a solace to believe that one is accurate in giving up what he or she desires because it is gods wil,l this way never having to admit he or she is to lazy to attain something mundane that require work.
 
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